Josh Parise has always been into the martial arts, ranging from Mixed Martial Arts to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and taekwondo, from kendo to Western Martial Arts. After leaving the Marine Corps and learning Army Combatives, he found some videos and manuals on historical fencing and never looked back. In his pursuit of historical fencing, Josh established his Broken Plow school, where it offers everything from longsword to kendo, and sabre and rapier to ringen. Josh is very proud of his school and talks at length about Broken Plow’s culture and how that has helped raise the bar and standard for everyone at the school. Josh also discusses a soft split that occurred within the HEMA Alliance. Parental Advisory – Language. Special thanks to Suzanne DeCree for acting as mediator. All images provided by Josh Parise. This is the second part of a four-part interview. Read the first part here and the third part here.
MAYTT: Having a military background, how has that influenced your approach to the way to learn and teach HEMA to others?
JP: Ok. That’s a great question. I love that question. I will regale you with a story from my past. When I got out of the Marine Corps, I was working for a former marine – we’re always marines, not ex-marines. He was a great dude; his name was Gary, but he was Native American, so we called him White Wolf. We were on this job where I was second in command or something under this other guy. My supervisor was up on the roof all day on the roof building these things for about eight hours, coming up on ten hours. We looked at it and we were like, “Holy fuck! It’s all wrong!” [Laughs] at that point, the sun’s going down in Pasadena and we were like, “might as well enjoy the sunset because we’re not going to see another one.” My boss showed up on the job sight, white wolf, and he was like, “Huh.” And we were sitting on the ridge, looking down at him like dumb kids that are in trouble. He says, “That ain’t right.” “Nope.” “Alright. Meet me at the bar.”
We met him down at the bar right next to our main office and I was ready to get my ass reamed because I’m an adult, I can accept responsibility for my actions, and they were flawed. He’s drinking a beer and he bought me a beer and he said, “The roof’s pretty fucked up. Can you fix it?” “Absolutely.” Then we’re drinking for half an hour and then he goes, “You know what’s fucked up?” “No Captain. What’s fucked up?” “Being in a shootout in Vietnam and then your buddy getting shot and you have to carry them three clicks to the LZ.” “Yup. That’s fucked up, Captain.” Another thirty minutes goes by, and he goes, “You know what’s really fucked up?” “No Captain. What’s fucked up?” “Realizing you’re carrying a dead guy for three clicks.” “Yup. That’s pretty fucked up.” Then he looked at me and asked, “Can you fix the roof?” “Yes, I can.” “Don’t sweat the small shit, kid.” [Laughs] Okay. There it is.
I think it’s being in the military where you learn to compartmentalize, adapt, and understand that nobody’s shooting at you and the channel’s open, so life doesn’t really get much better than that. I’m an optimist and everyone tells me that I have a golden horseshoe shoved up my ass. You know what, if you think a work ethic and a good attitude is reason to claim there’s a talisman in my rear that gives me magical powers, that’s fine. Maybe you just don’t understand what work ethic and desire and being a good person is all about. It’s easier for you to explain it away with magic, then who am I to take away your joy? [Laughs]
The military helps. I also grew up in a single parent household; my mom whooped our asses. I deserved every beating. People are like, “Don’t hit your kid.” Yeah, you would have hit me. [Laughs] If she didn’t, I wouldn’t be the guy I am today. She never raised a hand in anger; she raised a hand in correction. You only got one and you understood never to do that again. Having a single mother, she’s my mother and my father, we just did the thing. I am more comfortable with women in charge than I am with men because of the women in my life that were role models and authority figures. Where I have known a lot of guys that don’t earn it, they expect it, where the women I respect is where they fucking earned it. [Laughs]
Nothing really shakes me. I hate fucking treachery, I hate drama, I hate mutiny. That shit upsets me because there’s a thousand ways to avoid that, but there’s only three ways to actually do it. I never take myself seriously. I take what I do seriously but guys in competition that would fight me asked me, “Why are you always fucking smiling?” “We’re hitting each other with sticks.” If I wasn’t happy doing this, I would be doing it. I understand that this is a game. We’ve taken all the martial training out of it, and we’ve made it a sport – we’ve made it a contest. When there’s rules, you break the rules. I understand; I’m trying to do my best with techniques I know and I’m really enjoying the process. And people are floored by that. They’re like, “Well, it doesn’t make any sense.” But you don’t understand it, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t make any sense. Science is just magic until you figure it out. [Laughs]
MAYTT: You are the founder and head instructor of Broken Plow. What factors or influences led you to establish your own HEMA school?
JP: Real simple, brother. [Laughs] There was nobody doing it in four hours of me. That was it. If there was somebody closer, I would be a lifelong member at their club.
MAYTT: At that point when you started on your own, how did you get people interested within the region?
JP: Mainly, it was social media stuff; the old school stuff, the new school stuff. Facebook ads and things like that. Just promoting it through there. The old school is cool; I helped build the place and it was a nice place. People got to see that it’s legit and not bridge dwellers. Now, honestly, it’s word of mouth for us. People see the place, or they’ll attend one of our parties. We throw huge parties. We have a Harry Potter event; we have a yule ball that’s been going on for seven years and it sells out in three weeks – it’s like 300 people; it’s ridiculous. We do a Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings party. So, people hear about this place, and they come here.
So, there’s a couple of options here in Pittsburgh that you can go to. Most of which, in some form or fashion, were affiliated with me at some point and decided to go on their own or were booted out because they were douchebags. When somebody walks in into one of their places and they walk into our place, it’s a fucking strange place but it’s the only place in Pittsburgh like it. When people walk in, they’re like, “I guess you take this pretty seriously.” No, but we do it really well.
I don’t think you can name another martial arts school that has Knockturn Alley in their basement. [Laughs]
If you want to attend and see what the Broken Plow culture is all about, see what an actual HEMA school looks like after ten years, we host Blood on the River, which is our annual event. Often imitated, never duplicated and we’re doing a continuous fighting format. We are trying out some different rules, if people are interested or entertained by that. That is Labor Day weekend; it’s a three-day camping event at the school. People can come camp out and hang out. Then we have a pig roast and classes. Actually, Mike Edelson and Richard Marsden are both going to be there, so we got story time and sabres with grandpa. Then we have cutting, what you need to know and what you don’t know and how bad cuts will win you tournaments by Mike Edelson. It’s a great way to come hang out with people who love what you love without having to worry about any of the fucking current climate. It’s a cool place.
MAYTT: Seems like your school does a lot! Broken Plow offers many different classes and courses, ranging from longsword and rapier to ringen and kendo. What made you decide to offer many different arts and how did the school acquire many knowledgeable and versatile individuals to teach a wide range of martial disciplines?
JP: When we started off, we all did longsword because that was the cool thing to do. Having a background in Eastern Martial Arts, I always had this feeling that something was missing for me, or something that was a part of my soul that wasn’t being crushed enough so I had to find that eastern martial art to finish the crushing. When we started off, we were like, “There’s all this cool shit we can play with.” Ten years ago, there wasn’t cool shit; people were making cool shit. Then we started going through it. Longsword was great but not everybody wants to swing five feet of metal and there’s other stuff. And through networking and making friends, Richard Marsden would come in and he was like, “Try Polish Sabre. It’s the coolest weapon you don’t know about.” I fell in love with Polish Sabre too. It was out there, and we just had to figure out how. I don’t like to make shit up, so I would reach for these sources.
Cory Windslow, if you don’t know him, is indispensable. That guy has connections through Japanese sword arts all the way through the HEMA community. The books you’re reading are probably edited or written by him. So, he would give me these resources that were invaluable. I would talk to guys that would know what they were actually doing and took significant amounts of time to research and train in this stuff. I started picking brains and inviting people over, and paying for their airfare because that’s part of the responsibility of an owner that wants to give people more options is to make sure you’re not making this shit up. And that costs money. It’s one of those deals where you gotta be willing to sacrifice stuff to bring in legitimate people. And from there, it’s who has the vested interest.
I have a student that loves the Polish Sabre and he and Richard will sit down and talk, and Richard will come out two times a year to host seminars and Brandon is right there at his heel, soaking up the knowledge. He doesn’t look at him like, “Ok, Boomer.” He looks at him like, “Ok, Grandpa, what are you showing me next? I want to be a badass too.” It was that. Jonathan Bucci, our rapier instructor, he just didn’t want to swing a longsword. He was like, “This shit sucks.” God bless him; he’s like 5’5” and 140 pounds. “I don’t want to fucking fight you.” That makes sense. It’s in the book; I’m bigger; don’t wrestle me. [Laughs] He found a more elegant weapon for a more civilized time, and he went with the rapier. And the same thing, he started picking brains and started talking to the guys that came over from Italy that started really successful rapier schools, and talking to people who actually knew what the fuck they were doing with the rapier. He fell in love with it and dedicated five of his life to becoming good at it. And it’s not just HEMA people, but people in the SCA who were doing cut and thrust before and doing cut and thrust for thirty years. He is finding the books, finding the people who wrote the fucking books.
So there’s a lot of time and money and effort that went into knowing what the fuck you’re talking about. Anybody can go on the internet and learn how to do open heart surgery but I’m going to go with the old white guy who wrote the book and not you. [Laughs] That’s just what I’m going to fucking do. Sorry man, I believe that you can change a tire but I’m going to do it myself because you saw it on YouTube and I’ve been doing it for twenty years, so piss off. It’s a lot of dedication.
Then you have to find out what people are interested in. we’ve started a lot of classes that people don’t give no fucks about. I guess we’re not doing that one. You run it as a study group for a couple of months, then you run it as an open floor, throw it into the mix with the Friday night fights and see if anybody gives a shit. If someone is passionate about it, I don’t care if there’s a class of one, that’s my job; show up and teach that one person and maybe that person is like, “I can do this.” And the infection spreads. We were one of the first, maybe the only, schools here in the US that had mounted combat, equestrian martial sports. That was awesome and a lot of legwork and talking to people and remembering that I know how to ride a horse. We got twenty people at a time, beating the shit out of each other on horse and we would travel. We would go to different tournaments and engagements, and we would take these horses thirteen or fourteen hours away. The only thing that shut that down was Covid, as it did a lot of shit. The ranch basically shut down. It’s just one of those deals where if you think it’s interesting and you can do something with it, I am all about it.
Chuck Gross, one of our instructors and head marketing guy, he’s like, “Can we play with lightsabers?” I’m like, “Fuck yeah. We can fight with lightsabers.” I don’t care; I’ve been doing that since I was six. I’m not going to tell you now. So, he connected with the LSL guys, started a chapter here in Pittsburgh, and hosted events. He and I actually went through all of the treatises and different forms and different martial studies to see where this sword play stuff actually came from. So, whoever actually invented the lightsaber forms, whether they were an idiot savant or a genius or got lucky, it all does work if you actually know what resources it’s coming from. It was really wild; it was really fun to do that. We started a whole program where this is what Form 1 is and everything else. You can drop them with different weapons, because the styles are different.
I’m mainly entertained by the idea of can we do it, can we do it correctly, and is anyone interested? [Laughs] We do everything. We do archery, kendo, we have axe throwing, we have boxing, we have self-defense; we have so many. We run seven days a week and we have our own building and it’s a two-story church. It’s an old catholic church. I have the nicest boxing gym in Pittsburgh that nobody knows exists. [Laughs]
Don’t get me wrong; you have prune the weeds every once in a while. There are some ideas that just aren’t good ones. I’m not going to stop anybody but it’s just one of those things where it’s like, “That’s probably not going to work.” It’s okay to do that. It’s part of the responsibility of being the owner to say that we’re probably not going to do Polynesian fire dancing in the basement. You can try and I’ll get the fire extinguisher, but you gotta have a little bit of judgement, a little bit of common sense. But if it’s realistically attainable or somewhat obtainable and willing to put the legwork in, I’ll help anybody do anything. I don’t give a shit.
MAYTT: There are some HEMists that mention that historical fencing is moving towards being a “living lineage” martial art, rather than a purely historical one by reading directly from the manuals. What is your opinion on this and is this supposed transformation a benefit or a detriment to the HEMA community and movement?
JP: I supposed that contingent on whether or not they know what the fuck their doing. [Laughs] When I was a kid, we weren’t allowed to use calculators. Now, you use calculators. That’s fine but it goes back to the idea of “if you don’t know how to do it without cheating, do you actually know how to do it?” that goes back to the kinder, gentler HEMA that’s around right now. That’s a cultural, generational thing. I’m not casting aspersions on the current generation – I have my own personal opinions on that.
If you are the most special kid in the room, and you have always been the most special kid in the room, and your parents did you the disservice of not teaching you that failure is an opportunity for growth, then you have a generation of HEMA instructors who don’t want to do it the hard way. There are the few that are out there that are roughnecking it and doing it the right way and literally putting effort into it. This is also current in the climate now where history is revisionist and old people don’t know what they’re talking about. Anyone over the age of fifty is irrelevant, even though that guy took a bullet in the face so you could say any stupid shit you want anytime it comes to your brain.
Without the respect of history, then I do not agree with your personal heresies. Do I have my own personal heresies, absolutely. I know when something does or does not work, but I also know when to cheat when I’m fighting in a tournament, but that’s not what I’m going to teach somebody that wants to learn the historical aspect of it. So there’s a fine line between am I doing what I’m saying I’m going to do or am I being lazy or am I ego-driven? There is a tidal wave of narcissism that is happening right now, so you gotta check yourself. Look in the mirror, ask yourself, “Am I doing this for this or this, or am I doing that, or am I doing it for the right reasons, or what am I trying to accomplish?” If your goal is to teach historical German longsword from our lord and savior Liechtenauer, if he existed, then do that. But don’t expect your students to win in a lot of tournaments because that’s not how you win a tournament.
It’s a tough question. It comes back down to check yourself or do you deserve to be in the position that you are in, or do you deserve to teach people something because you put the legwork in and you understand how the system works, or did you not like the guy who made you do pushups at the last school so you left and you started your own? The art cannot be done without the exercise. For me, it’s inherent laziness and I’ll say it, put your fucking bootstraps up. The people that raised me were Boomers. It works; I’m living proof of doing it the hard means that you can absolutely do it the easy way. But doing it the easy way doesn’t mean you know anything about how it really works.
MAYTT: What you are saying is that people can do a living lineage, but they may be following one way one person did it, but without going to the books and manual, people won’t know how the art. Is that correct?
JP: That’s correct. If you’re talking about personal lineage, let’s not change the definition of “lineage.” [Laughs] Let’s keep that one sacred. If you are part of a lineage, you are part of lineage. You’re not the innovator; you’re not the grand master of swords. That’s not real. A lot of people have been cut down from their pedestals because they thought they were. Once you believe your own fucking hype, then it’s difficult. Maybe you are the second coming of Liechtenauer, but you better be really fucking good at it. And the problem with our art is that no one wants to play with a sharp sword. Unless you want to go outside and do naked sharps, I’m good with it – I trust my techniques. I don’t trust you. I’m probably going to get hurt because you have no fucking clue what you’re doing, but newbies and drunks are what keep you honest. So, you gotta put yourself to the test.
This is the second part of a four-part interview. Read the first part here and the third part here.
Broken Plow is hosting their Blood on the River this Labor Day Weekend [2023]. For more information, follow this link. To purchase tickets, click here.
Martial Arts of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow 