Liese Klein first stepped onto the mat after one of her friends cajoled her to tag along in 1989. She liked Aikido enough that she found a dojo when she moved to Florida. She then spent the better part of her Aikido career training with Kazuo Chiba and moved to Japan to train at Hombu Dojo for two and half years. She also served as the editor of Birankai’s newsletter and while in this role, she was tasked to write Chiba’s obituary in 2015. It was from this experience that she set out to create an all-encompassing biography of the Aikido pioneer. Entitled, The Life-Giving Sword, the book was released in 2019 and is available around the world on Amazon. Today, she took some time to talk about her work, the current climate of Aikido, strengths and weaknesses within the Aikido community, and the overall future of the art. This is the second part of a two part interview. Read the first part here.
MAYTT: On the topic of books, you are pushing a new book later this fall, according to your website.
LK: I am working on a longer-term project about the USAF Women’s Petition scandal, in which a group of women were persecuted and kicked out of the organization for challenging gender policies, but a friend of mine is also working on a book covering a similar topic and I’m inclined to wait and see what she produces first! In some ways, she’s achieving what I aimed to do – putting together the entire story with accompanying documents.
Fortunately, in that case, there’s a wealth of recordings, email exchanges, letters, and other primary sources that will effectively illustrate what transpired. One of the women involved in the situation is leading this effort. I hope her account will provide the comprehensive narrative I had envisioned.
As a journalist, I’m passionate about assembling information and presenting it in a coherent narrative for better understanding. Currently, there’s a lack of comprehensive understanding about the situation. While various interviews and stories exist, consolidating them all and providing context to understand what happened is crucial. I eagerly anticipate her account and its contribution to shedding light on the matter.
In the meantime, I’m starting another oral history project about a pioneering Aikido teacher — stay tuned!
MAYTT: What do you think the reaction will be from the larger Aikido community to a book about the USAF Women’s Petition incident?
LK: I don’t really know. It seems to me that the USAF has entered into a defensive stance, unwilling to acknowledge any larger issues. They appear to believe that any past problems were isolated incidents from long ago. They maintain that everything is now ideal for women, pointing to a few recent appointments of women into leadership roles after decades of male-dominated leadership. Additionally, they seem to dismiss women who raise concerns as mere complainers, labeling them as negative and not “in the spirit of Aikido.” Frankly, I don’t think they care about the impact of their stance and their reputation in the wider Aikido world.
I believe there needs to be an open discussion about past events, acknowledging the truth of what occurred. Following that, efforts should be made towards reconciliation with those who have been harmed.
But this problem extends far beyond the USAF. Incidents in California and Chicago involving the ongoing abuse of children in Aikido dojos were horrific. Almost every dojo I have trained in has had examples of serious abuses of power.
Aikido is currently grappling with numerous concerns, such as attracting practitioners and ensuring the survival of dojos in today’s landscape. Given these pressing issues, it’s possible that addressing past controversies may not be prioritized. However, having comprehensive records available for reference is crucial. This ensures that people are aware of the history and can make informed decisions moving forward.
MAYTT: You mentioned previously about tracking your students. Do you feel that the current training that younger and newer Aikidoka are receiving today is properly preparing them to best represent the Aikido for future generations?
LK: That’s a good question. It depends on the vision one holds for Aikido’s future. I’ve noticed a growing movement advocating for cross-training, incorporating elements of jiu-jitsu, Krav Maga, and intensifying training methods. While this may attract new practitioners, I believe the current approach to teaching Aikido is improving. It’s shifting away from personality-centric instruction and hero worship of older Japanese figures. Now, more women are taking on teaching roles, although there’s still a lack of diversity among instructors. I’m particularly excited to see Aikido spreading globally, with dojos emerging across Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and South America. This internationalization diversifies the practice and moves it beyond the influence of a select few individuals in Western countries or Japan.
In some ways, I believe Aikido is on the verge of a golden age. I’m confident it can transcend the conflicted, toxic masculinity imported by the first generation of teachers.
As for training methods, I don’t believe there’s a one-size-fits-all approach. Everyone requires different training based on their needs and cultural context. While some individuals may benefit from violent, intense physicality, others may not. In the past, troubled individuals were drawn to Aikido, where they endured physical harm. Today, such individuals may seek out jiu-jitsu or other martial arts.
While we’ve experienced some decline in numbers, I believe the future of Aikido lies beyond the United States and Europe. Other countries, in different parts of the world, show immense enthusiasm for Aikido. For instance, Eastern Europe seems to have strong Aikido communities. These countries appreciate Aikido for what it represents and don’t seek to infuse it with cartoonishly aggressive tendencies. I think the best for Aikido is yet to come, and it’s not about what we’re doing in our dojos in the US necessarily or Western Europe; we’re breaking free.
MAYTT: To use an academic term, Aikido is becoming less Western or Eurocentric?
LK: I think when Japanese teachers went to Western countries, and in the case of the US, they may have planted a poisoned tree. They tried to squeeze Aikido into the American martial arts paradigm, which is imbued with our culture’s violence and hypermasculinity. Look at Steven Seagal for instance. He emerged from a solid Aikido background, but movie by movie, he drifts off into a macho fantasyland. Towards the end of his mainstream movies, he’s just shooting people. That’s such a US paradigm. Like, “Oh, my Aikido’s so tough. My Aikido’s so tough. And now I’m so tough. I’m just going to shoot you in your face.” Where does that lead? It’s a dead-end road. Look at Seagal. Look at what happened. You can head in that direction, trying to get tougher, meaner, and more badass, and end up like him. That is a dead end.
I used to have a dojo where people were regularly shot in the streets nearby. When people come in asking for self-defense, I tell them that there’s no martial arts technique that’ll protect you from a jittery sixteen-year-old with a gun. There’s no such thing as self-defense here, not in the classic Roadhouse sense. That stuff is all, again, a masculine fantasy. I don’t mean to offend, but that’s the truth. Aikido managed to make it work for a few years there, but I think Aikido’s gotta drop it. Drop the bullshit. Go back to what O-Sensei said about polishing the spirit, mind, and body; not about kicking some guy’s ass down at the bar. If you really want to kick some ass, there are plenty of other ways to do it.
It seems to me that a lot of other countries have a healthier attitude toward aggression and masculinity. Aikido is Aikido. It is what it is. So don’t try to impose your insecurities about your own masculinity on Aikido and turn it into some kind of badass fantasy.
MAYTT: In your years of teaching, have the type of students changed? Do you think the students coming into your dojo today or in the last twenty years are different from those students from the 1990s?
LK: I don’t know because I think people generalize based on their own experience. Back then, many who got into Aikido came from a background of watching the Kung Fu TV show and having romanticized ideas about martial arts and Japanese culture. Now, we’re seeing a new generation that knows a lot more about Japanese culture. Personally, I knew nothing about Japanese culture. I had never even eaten sushi. Now, I have six-year-olds in my dojo eating sushi, watching Japanese movies, and learning Japanese words from various cultural sources. So, in some ways, students are coming in more knowledgeable about certain things and perhaps more skeptical about cultural appropriation and different learning styles. The traditional Japanese dojo approach was often to observe quietly and learn through imitation, but Americans have a different learning style. They prefer more explanation and breakdown of techniques.
In terms of quality of person or dedication, I don’t think it’s very different. I have a university club as well, and they’re very dedicated and physically gifted. They also know a lot more about Japan than I ever did. However, they have some skepticism, especially younger people, about the hierarchies in Aikido and the toxic masculinity in American martial arts culture. That’s why I fear for Aikido if an organization like the USAF represents us. This generation is very conscious of sexual harassment and gender dynamics, yet they’re being led by an organization of eighty-year-old men who either deny sexual harassment or claim it’s never been a problem in their organization. How is that going to attract new people? In that sense, I fear for the future, and I think many traditional structures supporting Aikido represent the worst of the past.
In a lot of ways, I think Aikido will do fine outside of the US, and maybe even within it, with a new generation of teachers who are less stuck in the past, less focused on trying to change Aikido into something it’s not. There are teachers out there who embody this approach, and I’m encouraged by what I see. People in their thirties and forties, unburdened by a lot of unnecessary baggage, are the future – not the traditional organizations.
MAYTT: On the topic of students, have newer students changed the way you and your dojo, New Haven Aikikai, approaches teaching Aikido?
LK: I’d say yes and no. Opening a dojo makes you realize that the way you learned Aikido might not be the same for others. What motivated you might not be the same for them. So, as soon as you open the doors, your approach to Aikido starts evolving. Do I see a big generational shift in that? Not necessarily. But I do think our culture as a whole is changing, and it’s impacting people of all ages. One thing that has changed in me over time is that as my body ages and my injuries start acting up, I’m a lot more conscious of potentially harming people. I came up in a tradition where hurting people was just another part of training. I don’t want to do that to people.
I want people to enjoy doing Aikido, to find it fun, interesting, and challenging. I still find it challenging day-to-day, and that’s what I want to pass on. I don’t want to impose anything from my past or anyone else’s past on others. You don’t need to do it the way I did it.
It’s amazing that anyone does Aikido, that you have a group of people who are doing it in a dojo. That’s a miracle, especially in our culture where there are so many other things to do and so many other ways to spend your time. It’s so much easier to stay at home and watch Shogun on Hulu. So, anyone who gets in their car and comes to my dojo, I’m like, “Wow.” There’s something special in Aikido, but it’s not going to be for everyone, and we shouldn’t be trying to pimp it out as this and that.
I think that’s going to be a phase that will pass. That’s another thing I discovered in my research for the book – there were articles about how Aikido sucks and is wimpy in 1976, literally. It’s always been out there, you know? But then I also saw articles from martial artists of a kind that no longer exist – people who were in World War II and really nasty street fighter martial artists who loved Aikido. They didn’t have to prove anything; they had broken every bone in their bodies and killed people. But they chose Aikido. So, let’s honor their choice and not try to dial it back to some legendary day when everyone in the dojo was an MMA fighter. Those days never existed, and we cannot recreate them. Let’s focus on what those guys saw in Aikido and try to perpetuate it. So that’s my feeling, but not everyone agrees.
MAYTT: You touched on cultural appropriation earlier; how does that work when you are a white person perpetuating a Japanese cultural product? How does cultural appropriation fit into that?
LK: I think there are some gradations to it. I mean, if you try to be Japanese, and again, I’ve seen that, it was really interesting to go to Japan and experience it, and then come back and see Westerners, Americans, and others trying to impose what they thought Japanese culture was on their students. Like, “I’m the sensei of a dojo, so you should listen to everything I say. I can tell you what to do with your life. I can tell you how to spend your time. I can ask you to help me mow my lawn and wash my underwear, and you should say yes, even if you don’t have time.”
I think back in the earlier days when people were becoming Aikido teachers or any kind of martial arts teachers, there were a lot of weird power dynamics that resulted from their version of cultural appropriation. These days, just being a white person running a dojo, I’m very upfront with people. I say there is an element of cultural appropriation here. But Aikido was created as a transcultural object; the founder wanted it to be international. It’s not like we’re going into some village in Kumamoto and stealing a secret art and taking it back to the U.S. and making big money off it.
I think one important part of that cultural thing, though, is that by creating a “Japanese” space, does that further distance us from minorities within our own culture or people of color? When they walk in here, or are they weirded out by this pseudo Japanese environment? So that’s something that many people are thinking about. How “Japanese” do I want to be to the point that it alienates people who are already in a maybe mostly white space?
I think that’s my bigger concern about cultural appropriation; am I being too Japanese to the point that it alienates people? I don’t think I am, but I don’t know. I don’t have as diverse a dojo as I would like.
MAYTT: To you, what are the strengths of Aikido that the community can rally behind?
LK: In the past six months, I’ve noticed an interesting trend on my social media feeds: an increasing number of posts about movement. It seems like different forms of movement, such as mimicking animal movements, have gained popularity on platforms like TikTok and others. Among these posts, I’ve come across videos of young individuals showcasing various movement routines, often in aesthetically pleasing settings. Interestingly, I’ve seen a few clips where people, particularly young women, are practicing movements that closely resemble those found in Aikido, such as knee walking!
Aikido offers a rich variety of movements and interactions that are highly beneficial. In Aikido classes, we engage in diverse movements that open up the body, promote positive energy, and encourage direct interaction with others. These movements not only improve physical flexibility and mobility but also fulfill a fundamental human need for interpersonal connection and physical engagement.
I believe Aikido has the potential to become the martial art of the future. Currently, especially in the US, there’s this pervasive sense of xenophobia and a desire to isolate ourselves. This atmosphere breeds negativity and division. However, I envision a future where Aikido thrives as an art that brings people together, fostering communities and promoting unique forms of movement that benefit both physical and mental health.
We should shift our focus to the positive aspects of Aikido and its potential to positively impact individuals and communities. Rather than dwelling on past eras of martial arts dominance, such as the aggressive combat of the 1970s, we should embrace Aikido’s unique qualities and its role in shaping a healthier, more connected future.
One thing we’ve discussed is how to spread positive awareness about Aikido. Unfortunately, many organizations are too focused on maintaining the status quo and generating revenue for themselves. For instance, in the case of the USAF, it seems a significant portion of funds goes towards covering expenses like the utility bills for New York Aikikai. With such narrow focus, there’s little room for investing in initiatives that could shape the future of Aikido.
I’m particularly impressed by Josh Gold’s efforts to introduce Aikido into schools and promote conflict resolution. A few years ago, a neighborhood group approached me, expressing a desire for something beyond self-defense techniques. They wanted to learn techniques that would help them relax and find inner peace. This request resonated with me, highlighting the importance of offering something peaceful and nurturing rather than solely focusing on combat techniques.
MAYTT: This talk of Aikido as the art of the future reminds me of people like Terry Dobson and Robert Nadeau, making Aikido more of a conflict resolution idea.
LK: Oh yeah, I’m all for exploring new realms with Aikido, but there’s a line for me, you know? I attended this seminar on the West Coast led by one of those “Aikido for the Future” folks, and it was just endless talking for forty minutes straight. It was nuts. When you strip away the movement and practice, that’s when things start to unravel. The traditional framework of the practice, where you don’t over-explain things, that’s where the magic happens. But when you talk it to death, try to turn it into some corporate training session, that’s when you lose its essence because it’s not about movement anymore.
Unfortunately, I’ve seen this trend gaining ground, especially on the West Coast with certain organizations and teachers, just blabbing away endlessly.
I mean, I’ve watched videos where the guy talks for fifteen minutes straight, and then finally, the other guy falls down. Like, seriously, enough already. Let’s get back to the movement and practice, where the real essence of Aikido lies.
I think that’s the other end of the spectrum of wrongness; I think that is where you lose the movement, and you lose the technique. There’s some wisdom in that. Just because you can talk a lot doesn’t mean your wisdom supersedes the wisdom of the body of the movement. Many of these individuals who think deep thoughts and conduct these fancy programs don’t have dojos or regular practices; they just sit and think about Aikido all day. While that’s nice and there’s a place for it, we can’t lose sight of the day-to-day practice, the essence of the dojo.
I saw that much more when I lived on the West Coast. It’s interesting to me that the East Coast has really caught the toxic masculinity bug, while a lot of the West Coast seems to have the “let’s pull out the white board and talk about green Jello and the universe” approach. So I’m glad to be on the East Coast, let’s just say.
MAYTT: Do you have anything else you would like to say before we finish?
LK: I’m really grateful. Even though I wandered into a dojo in 1989 for the most frivolous reasons, Aikido has given me so much. I mean, I think my main concern now is my own body and my own mortality. But I don’t worry about Aikido as an art. I think it’s got a great future. I think it had a great past.
Humans screw everything up and we did a lot of damage, especially in the cults of personality, which I hope I’ve done some part in trying to address through my writing. But I think the nature of Aikido is that it’s always changing and it’s always challenging itself. Let it happen and don’t worry so much. That’s my final message. Just get out there and train. Yeah. Shut up and train. You’ve heard that one before. Shut up and train and stop worrying about the future of Aikido and whether you could use Aikido in a brawl at the roadhouse.
MAYTT: Thank you again for speaking with us!
LK: That was a good conversation.
This is the second part of a two part interview. Read the first part here.
To learn more about aikido and its history in America, click here.
Martial Arts of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow 