In the spirit of finding an activity to further connect with his Japanese ancestry, Andrew Sato found aikido through the help of two community members. After trying out a single class with Fumio Toyoda, Sato was hooked and proceeded to train relentlessly with Toyoda until the latter’s passing. In the aftermath, Sato, under the direction of Mrs. Toyoda, helped direct the Aikido Association of America. By 2004, Sato and Mrs. Toyoda parted ways and the next year, Sato unexpectedly established his Aikido World Alliance. Today, Sato took some time to talk about his time with Toyoda, his relationship with the Toyoda family, and the long process of securing Aikikai Hombu Dojo recognition. This is the first part of a two part interview. Read the second part here.
Martial Arts of Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow: Welcome Sato Sensei! Thank you for joining us!
Andrew Sato: Thank you for having me here today.
MAYTT: You started training aikido in 1977 in Chicago. How did you come to find your first aikido class?
AS: Well, I wanted to do something to keep my culture at the time and. I was going to a church and two of the Japanese American women there were taking aikido under Fumio Toyoda Sensei and they recommended that I try it. I really didn’t know what it was, although at the time, the woman who was my wife had actually taken it as well. I did go to an exhibition to watch the demo. But it just didn’t click with me anyway. They recommended it and I went there and never left.
MAYTT: That’s awesome. What is it about the art that continues to motivate you to train today?
AS: At the time, Toyoda Sensei didn’t even have you sign a waiver; he offered you one free trial lesson. I tried the free trial lesson and signed up at the end of class. I think I like the physicality of it more than anything. The energy that he offered just clicked with me. I had tried karate in college; it just didn’t do anything. With aikido, I just never left. I just was like a sponge. So, it was very good.
MAYTT: Once you signed up for training, how would you describe that training you experienced in the first three years?
AS: Toyoda Sensei was thirty years old, and he was very powerful, very young, and very fit. They offered the classes seven days a week, Monday through Friday. There were three classes at night, and I took classes seven days a week. I ended up getting divorced two years later because the big part was because I just wanted to do aikido. I was doing it every day. I go to work, leave work, grab a bite, and go straight to the dojo. That was pretty much my routine, probably till about 1980. there were a lot of deshi from Japan living there. They were about my age, maybe a little older, so I was. I was their protege, so to speak. I trained under them and got to know my culture and the training, so it was just there’s a lot of fun.
MAYTT: Wow! From those first few years to now, how have you seen aikido training change or evolve as a whole?
AS: Well, I would say it’s very similar to the present day. There’s a big change in in everybody’s attitude in life and in society in general. I think there’s much more of a sense of entitlement, whereas back then you just trained hard, you didn’t complain, you didn’t expect certain things, but now everybody wants something right away. That sense of instant gratification right now is a deterrent for aikido.
Back then, everybody wore a suit and tie when they got on the plane. Now people wear pajama bottoms and sandals to get on the plane. Attitudes about formality and respect have really changed over the years. If you try to keep a traditional way of martial arts – where there’s much more formality, respect, a hierarchical society within the culture of the dojo – I think a lot of people are not into that part of it, so it really pushes people away. Also, it’s a very competitive society; the last thing on Earth people are interested in is a non-competitive art. That’s what I think is why there’s not a lot of young people doing it now, like back in the 1970s and 1980s.
MAYTT: Society has changed, and it sounds like the people coming into the school have changed as well. Have these newer students changed the way you approach teaching, or have you kept your teaching approach fairly consistent since you first started?
AS Well, I can only say I’m who I am, so I don’t think my teaching has changed all that much, partly because I want to keep it a certain way. With what I was taught, I am trying to carry on that tradition and hopefully come close to meeting with what Toyoda Sensei used to offer. A lot of people come, and they leave right away because they don’t like the rules, so to speak.
I think training in general is not for everybody. It’s not necessarily hard training, but it’s the discipline of doing it regularly to try to get better at something and following a program well that, I think, People just don’t like to do that anymore. It’s just not that easy. It’s not just coming and throwing your bag wherever you want and getting on the mat without bowing or showing respect and practicing when you want. I think those are a lot of things that are lost nowadays, so the interest in having to do that is not there. A good example is people text all the time. They can’t even write complete sentences anymore. It’s a sad statement.
So, in other words, my teaching has not changed. It’s the same.
MAYTT: Everything around you has changed, and you are trying to keep the dojo consistent?
AS: I might not be as vigorous as I used to be. I’m a lot older; I’m seventy-three, so I still try to take ukemi as much as I can. But I’m not like I was thirty years ago.
MAYTT: How do you see yourself pushing the limits of aikido? Is it going outside of the box like many people suggest or it is more of a spiritual avenue?
AS: I think people come to aikido and most martial arts for different reasons. Every ten or twelve years, some of those reasons change partly because of how they are at that point in their life or their physical condition, or they’re outside their responsibilities. So, things change. Part of me still wants to be that energetic, rough guy that used to just love to take break falls, but the reality is, my body can’t take it anymore. But that doesn’t mean I don’t train as hard. I might train in different aspects, maybe more weapons, maybe longer sessions at a slower pace. You just have to adjust.
The average age of most aikidoka are probably closer to forty or forty-five than it is twenty or twenty-five nowadays in most dojos. you’re not going to see that same kind of intensity that you used to see – everybody taking break falls and hard pins. It just isn’t there.
I’m very good friends with the USAF and I go to a lot of their events as well. I’ve taught at some of their events as well and it’s the same thing there. They do keep a much more traditional way, I think in some sense, but you don’t see a lot of people taking breakfalls. They have a huge membership; they’re about 4,500 members in the US. Some of their summer camps are four or five hundred people, but the age is roughly around the forty to forty-five marks from what I could see.
MAYTT: With that in mind, what were some things that were taught to you or that you taught yourself when you were younger that you cannot teach anymore because of the rise in student age range?
AS: Suwari waza is one of them. I have very bad knees, so it’s hard enough just to sit seiza, let alone do suwari waza. It’s almost impossible now. I have a bad back and I still take ukemi; I still do kokyu nage. The only thing I can’t do is suwari waza. But I have students that are young, and they do and that’s fine. I just have to let them teach that part of the class.
MAYTT: What can all practitioners do right now to improve their overall performance?
AS: Stay healthy. I’m not as thin as I used to be, but if you stay healthy, you can still do aikido for a long time. One of my biggest inspirations is Yasuo Kobayashi – he’s gotta be eighty-six or eighty-seven and he still takes ukemi. I think staying healthy is the biggest thing. When I say stay healthy, I mean not being super overweight or smoking a lot of cigarettes and drinking a lot of alcohol. There’s a time and place for that, but it’s going to interfere with your practice. So, if you’re really intent on your practice, you will try to watch your diet, stay away from too many sweets or salts. Try to stay healthy so you can practice. It’s a physical art. That’s my suggestion to everybody.
MAYTT: Being a longtime member and contributor to the aikido community, what are your feelings on the mounting negative views and comments on aikido? Are they truly warranted and, in your opinion, is there anything the aikido community as a whole can do to battle or debunk such perceptions?
AS: Unfortunately, the world has many vocal critics of just about any endeavor, aikido or other. This has been exacerbated by the ease that internet and social media allow anything to go public instantly. While aikido may appear to be “weaker, inefficient, less brutal” (add any adjective) than other martial arts it depends on what the person seeks in any art. Are they a weekend warrior? Is the person younger or older, philosophical, etc. There are too many variables to just label aikido as this or that. The broad reasons why someone trains in aikido is the beauty of what aikido can offer. It has something for everyone, young or old, extrovert or introvert.
The world has become expectant of all things instantly or at least faster, especially among the younger generations. Changing that perception is an obstacle not only for aikido but many long-term efforts. Getting out the message that anything worthwhile takes time will be the avenue to help “debunk” or give the public a way to view aikido as worthwhile to practice.
MAYTT: Thank you for that. A few years before you began training with Toyoda, Koichi Tohei separated from the Aikikai. How much interaction did Ki Society and Aikikai have with each other? Were they hostile or cordial interactions?
AS: None. You have to remember that in 1977, there wasn’t a whole there wasn’t an Internet, there weren’t VHS or even tapes to see, so everything was by phone call and long distance. My world was Ki Aikido. When I first started in 1977 to 1984, Toyoda Sensei was with Ki Society. In 1984, he parted company with Ki Society. By 1985, he started the Aikido Association of America (AAA). He was an independent organization, not connected to Hombu Dojo, but it definitely wasn’t Ki Aikido anymore. By 1986, he had his own style. Then, in 1993, he reconnected with Hombu Dojo, and I think in 1994, all of our don certificates came from Hombu Dojo. From about 1985 to 1993 – almost ten years, it was aikido by Toyoda, and it was a little different, but not that far different from Aikikai style.
You know, Aikikai is a huge umbrella, right? It’s a really soft style on one end to like Kazuo Chiba Sensei down at the other end. It’s hard to say exactly what Aikikai is. Toyoda Sensei was somewhere in the middle.
MAYTT: When Toyoda stepped away from the Ki Society, how did you and the other students receive the news?
AS: I can only speak for myself and the members of the dojo at the time we were under him at Tenshinkan Dojo here in Chicago. It kind of surprised us, but at the same time, it didn’t. Wherever Sensei went, I went. It wasn’t a question of should I pick between Toyoda Sensei or Ki Society. I really wasn’t connected to Ki Society in a sense. I had only trained under Koichi Tohei and two of his senior students, maybe half a dozen times. Toyoda Sensei was my teacher. Probably 360 days out of the year. Whatever he did was okay. In my mind, I didn’t have things to compare with. Now, you can go on the Internet and YouTube and see different styles and say, “Oh, I like that; I’ll choose that one. Oh, I like that.” It’s a big difference in the world. Back then, your teacher was your whole world. No different than other styles, I would suspect back then. It didn’t really affect me. When he said he’s starting a new organization, I was there for him. It was kind of a smooth transition for me. I didn’t question it. That was pretty sheltered in a sense. Now, it’s a lot different knowing other organizations being much more aware of the politics our organization is directly connected to Hombu Dojo. There’s a lot more politics involved, which is unfortunate, but I think that’s part of the larger reality.
MAYTT: You bring up training with Tohei and his senior students only a handful of times. What was the Ki Society community like? Was it isolated or was it on a case-by-case basis?
AS: I think this is true for any organization, doesn’t matter what style: You’ll have dojos and students within that dojo that are much more active within the large organization. We’re talking about Ki Society; I rarely traveled because Toyoda Sensei brought student brought teachers there and he didn’t encourage all the students to go travel with him. Nowadays, I wish I had because I think traveling and going to other seminars outside is a really big experience for people to learn and understand their aikido – their personal aikido. I never thought to do it then. But for me, back then, he was my whole world and that really didn’t click. There were a lot of things that I maybe missed because of that. But at the same time, because he satisfied pretty much whatever itch I had, so to speak. But other members from other Aikido groups, dojos came when he had seminars here in Chicago.
MAYTT: You mentioned previously that when you first started with Toyoda, there was an energy that you really enjoyed from him. How would you describe him as an instructor?
AS: All these are my experiences. He could be very brutal to people. Some guys and women would take a real beating for him. He never yelled at me and I’m not sure exactly why, but he would go off on a rant with some other guys. I think part of that was because they could never learn to say, “I’m sorry, it’s my fault.” He was very big on taking responsibility and if you didn’t just say, “I’m sorry. I’ll fix it,” he just would just keep pushing and that’s what turned off a lot of people.
I think he was a lot like some of the other senseis; they could be really nice, and the next minute, something would happen, and they’d be like a volcano. For the western person, that was very unsettling, I think, for their first experience. But he was very charming and engaging in a jovial way when he was teaching. His teaching style was very different in many ways. In the old school Japanese way, the teacher would not say anything. They demonstrate four or five times and then that’s it. Practice. Figure it out. But Toyoda Sensei incorporated body movements; he was very slow in some of his demonstrations, and he’d explain certain reasons for the technique. That was really attractive to a lot of people. They would always have a thousand questions: Why did you do it this way? How come we stand this way? He would take the time to explain to them; he was very different that way. I can only compare that to now, having been out in the world and going to other seminars, seeing other teachers, and how they talk. But for the first ten to fifteen years, I was pretty isolated.
MAYTT: With that approach to teaching, was he able to meet students where they were in their training as opposed to following a standardized guideline of techniques?
AS: He would take the time with a lot of people. I think that one of his charms is that he could meet you at one time and then remember you six months later and know exactly where you were at. I think that’s a mark of a good teacher as they can remember certain aspects of a student, even if only meeting them for one weekend. Really, most of them were his students and organization anyways. It was his job to know them, and he could almost read you like a book. Sometimes, it was kind of scary, but he was really able to give you one or two pointers and it would just take your aikido to the next level. I saw that happen at his national events too.
MAYTT: In the time that you were with him, did you feel that the way he approached teaching aikido, did you feel that you were getting better at the art faster than if you were to try and mimic without any explanation?
AS: Again, it’s only me. I think I picked up certain things right away like a sponge and I could physically do them without too much explanation or too much correction. But other things, it took a while. It was many years later I realized some things. I remember what he said or did and go, “Oh yeah, that’s why he did it. That’s why he said it.” I think that’s with any practice. You can lead the horse to the water, but you can’t make him drink. At some point, they’re either going to get it or not, and maybe it’ll take a few years and then it reveals itself. Sometimes, too little, too late, but if you get it, you get it. I think his teaching really did help me in a lot of ways.
MAYTT: Toyoda founded his AAA in 1985. How did you see the organization grow after that year?
AS: like I said, I wasn’t involved in politics and organization until really late. From 1977 to 1984, it was Ki Society and he built up quite a network of students or dojos. When he decided to part ways with Tohei and make the AAA, probably eighty-five to ninety percent of those dojos went with him. From 1984 to either 1994 or 1995, he really made some huge leaps, especially overseas. In the US, by 1995, he probably had eighty-five dojos in the States, but he had something like a hundred and something in Europe. Most of them are former Eastern European bloc countries: Bulgaria, Poland, Greece, Latvia, Sylvania, those kinds of areas. He would go there, and they were dirt poor. My understanding was he didn’t ask for money, he would say, “So you can invite me, pay for my ticket and I’ll come teach.” I think at some point it was about gathering more students for a bigger following; that was his approach. He had a really big following in Europe, so when he finally realigned to Hombu Dojo under Nidai Doshu, he could say, “Look, this is what I’ve done. I’d like to rejoin.”
MAYTT: That is amazing. How did Toyoda gain such a big following in Europe?
AS: One was a guy named George Koliopoulos. He and I actually went to the same university and that was another incentive to practice. He and I were university students together, and he was already training under Toyoda Sensei as well, but he was of Greek origin. Back in, I think 1983 or 1985, he went back to Greece and he started a group of dojos there, and he aligned under Toyoda Sensei. Some people from other countries met or knew George from Bulgaria and Poland and went to Greece to train with him. They connected and George introduced Toyoda Sensei to them. They invited him to Poland, then to Greece.
That’s one of the avenues that really took off in the late 1980s and early 1990s. That time was formative years for the Eastern European countries to discover aikido and he just happened to be exposed to them at the right time, right place. It really took off. They were hungry for aikido. He accommodated them not only technique wise, but I think emotionally and financially. And so, they followed him.
This is the first part of a two part interview. Read the second part here.
To learn more about aikido and its history in America, click here.
Martial Arts of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow 